WoW Blogger LFG for quests and instances

A few inspirations for this potential project… In one of the podcasts I listen to, someone mentioned that in order to hang out with friends on different servers, they rolled alts on the same server to play together once a week. Then, I was just saying to The Game Dame in a comment that it might be cool to get together with some other bloggers, because it was really fun to chat with both her and Amava at the Gnaked Gnome Race last weekend. So, if anyone is up for it, want to get a group together?

I’m thinking…

– A group of 4-5 folks.

– We commit to playing together at least once a week. (We’ll exchange e-mail addresses to coordinate playtimes, canceling and adding sessions as people have time and interest. I’m in the Eastern Time Zone and play most evenings and quite a bit on weekends.)

– It would be good to have at least one possible healer and tank, though there can be some flexibility since each class offers builds for multiple roles. We should arrange ahead of time what classes folks plan to choose to be sure we have our bases covered.

– Each of us rolls our new toon on the designated server and levels it to 10. Then, we’ll all meet up at an inn somewhere and begin our adventures together.

– This will be the opposite of Year of the PuG. We’ll only play as a group, this group, and work through the content together. This will keep us all at the same level.

– Leveling up fishing or crafting professions when other folks aren’t around is fine. Leveling up gathering professions is fine if you’re mindful of any experience you might be getting from either exploration or kills around the gathering spots. (You shouldn’t allow yourself to get too far ahead of the group.)

– It might be cool to all choose different professions to minimize overlap in resource gathering and maximize benefit to the group. Of course we’ll all want a bit of cash flowing in to buy mounts and so forth, but the group shouldn’t sell items or services to each other.

– As loot drops, folks can roll need to upgrade their gear and greed to help pad their bank accounts. Again, we’ll be considerate and mindful of what will make the group strongest as a whole.

You’re probably thinking…

Ess, is this an excuse to roll another alt? Well, maybe. *shifty eyes*

I don’t have time to do this. Yeah, I know, I probably don’t either. But it would be a casual thing. I wouldn’t imagine us being hell-bent to get to the end game or anything. Instead, it would be a way to get to know and spend some time playing with like-minded people. This would be the anti-PuG. (Hey, there’s a title if anyone wants to blog it!)

We’d never get to the end game. Think of how painful the collection quests would be! Yeah, could be. But think how fast we’ll kill stuff. *steamroller!* Plus, if it’s too painful, we’ll break format, start a social blogger channel (or guild or whatever) for these alts and just hang out that way.

This is all too restrictive. Possibly. Like I said, if it fails, we can still all be friends, right?

As far as I’m concerned…

– We could play either Horde or Alliance.

– We could play on any of the servers, RP, PvE, or PvP (hey, we’ll be together all the time, right?).


If anyone is potentially interested, let me know and we can start planning!

And of course, if you think I have a touch of the crazy, you can say that, too.  🙂


126 responses

  1. Aw, I’m sorry you can’t join us, Softi… maybe put out a similar call for bloggers on your zone’s servers?

    @Dammerung and Wara


    My husband just said he’d like to join us for this, so if Wulfa is in, that will make five.

    Horde PvE is a go, too. Any preference for a particular server? I’d suggest we choose one where none of us has toons to make sure nobody feels like they have to be everyone else’s sugardaddy/mama. If we all start with nothing, we can scrape by together. Of course if someone wants to be our patron… 😉

    Mr. Ess says he doesn’t have strong prefs for a particular class to play, but expressed some interest in playing a mage since he doesn’t currently have one.

    I’d be up for playing a priest, warlock, hunter, or a druid. I’d be fine with any of the group roles, too. (Obviously, if I tank, I’ll go with the druid.) If forced to choose, I’d say warlock since I don’t have one yet, but really, any of those would be good with me.

    Anyone have strong preferences about the class/role they’d like to play? I’m betting once a few people decide, the rest will fall into place. 🙂

  2. Oh! Pick me! Pick me! Let’s TOTALLY do it. I’d play any class you need me to. The only caveat is that I’ve never played a melee class (mostly healers or casters or hunters), so there’d be a learning curve. However, I would totally LOVE to learn a warrior, rogue, or prot pally if that’s a class we would need — just so long as people were patient with my noobishness. 😉 Horde PvE is my preference too. I like the idea of a new server. We’d have to start out “pure” with no twinkishness going on. Am I odd man (woman) out??

  3. I don’t have any strong preference for class. I’d rather not level another drood, but actually don’t care all that much…I haven’t tried feral much at all. Whatever’s the most useful. 😀

    I also don’t have a real server preference. My main’s on Arathor but I don’t nearly have enough money to be a sugar daddy. Well, unless someone wants to play a female belf. Kidding!

  4. Ahhhhh, did the group fill up already? /sigh. That sounds like a lot of fun! Maybe I could be a hanger-on or an obscure posse member….

    Let me know if you’d like me to sign up. I’ll gladly play any role, though, currently, I have two holy priests and a hunter that I’m playing. I do have some good experience as a warrior tank and a little experience as a ‘lock.

    Good luck, and let me know if I can be a part.


  5. I believe there was something similar to this that WoW Insider put together a while back, that is to say, they made a guild “just for WoW bloggers” to meet up and stuff. That was a while ago though, and from what I can understand it didn’t really get far off the ground… a lot of people played characters, nobody really played.

    Sometimes I think it would be really fun if we all copied our high level characters to a test realm but then I remember that we have a faction difference so that wouldn’t work out so well.

    Regardless, I would be up for rolling a new character on a new server; I’m fine with Alliance or Horde (leaning Alliance just because I have SO MANY horde alts lately) and with any server type, although an RP or RP-PvP server would be MUCH preferred but I understand that I’m probably the only one who feels that way!

    I can’t guarantee how often I’d be on the new character because I have a bunch of others I’m working on. But I’d love to pop in sometimes and chat it up!

  6. I’m so excited to see this much interest! On the EU servers, looks like Softi, Eric, and one5ive7even have a good start to a group, too. If you guys get this going, keep me posted on how it turns out. 🙂

    I was wondering how we might be able to include everyone since got a group of five almost immediately, and then Dax e-mailed a great idea. We could try to put together two 5-man groups, and then someday maybe we could run Kara and ZA and whatever comes after.

    So far, we have…

    Mr. Ess
    The Game Dame

    … and we’ll let Pike know where we are so she can come chat (or join the guild if we form one). (Interesting about the WoW Insider group — hadn’t heard about that).

    So, looks like we’d need three more folks for a second group of five. Anyone? (Bueller?) 🙂

  7. Woooot!! I’m on….Blogger team #2…..hmmmm.

    Does this mean that I get to wipe my way through content and be envious of how easy team #1 has it? And then watch the Loot Master play favorites with the [Corroded Piece of Crap], which I NEED cause I’m Monkey spec’d, but the stoopid BE mage gets because she’s offering to wear her Christmas suit for grouping?? Or, does that mean I can put on the afkautoheal and go get a soda??

    lol. I’m looking forward to gettin’ this up and running. I also miss the Horde after playing the last 8 months as Alliance.



  8. Floating back to check on things thanks to Dax posting and reminding me.

    I have no preferences on servers, other than low population to avoid wait times.

    Ess you should have my email via your comment system so email me if a date/server is decided. Right now I’m under the impression we’re doing horde, making a guild for us all, and running with two groups.

    Heading to lunch now and will be discussing this with Wulfa and dumbbrother. Dumbbrother might be intrested in joining us as well as part of group two. If we have room that is.

  9. Yep, that’s right, Dammerung. Horde PvE, two 5-mans, and it would be handy to start a guild for us once we have the cash to do so. Low pop server sounds good, too.

    That would be great if dumbbrother (can I call him that, too?) could join us! We’ll save a slot for him until we hear one way or another. And Game Dame, if you’d like to post in your blog and see if you can recruit a couple more people, that would be fine. I’m not sure how we’ll choose if we get more than two, however, so if you have a couple people in mind, it might be best to ask them directly.

    Once we have ten folks committed, we can compare schedules and form the 5-man groups based on best playtime overlap, time zones, etc. I know some folks have regular raiding (and RL) schedules that will need to be considered. I think it also makes sense not to divide up Mr. Ess and I (or Wulfa and Dammerung), since our availability is going to be similar. (If Mr. Ess is on, I usually am, too. Let me know if this isn’t the case for the 2.5 Orcs though, guys!)


  10. Since I don’t raid, I’m completely open as long as I can make it through my work/commute schedule.

    Tell you what, I’ll create a post along the lines of those infomercials: THE NEXT TWO PEOPLE WHO POST ON OUTLAND BOUND WILL WIN A BERTH. How’s that? Then, if we get more people interested, they can be understudies in case someone in the main groups can’t make an instance or something.

  11. Sounds like the two couples would make a good base for the two teams. Then all us hangers on can fill in the rest. Of course, I’m not insinuating that the couples be the tank/healer, just that they be placed in separate groups for stability.


  12. Pingback: You’re Invited to a Bloggers’ Alt Guild « The Game Dame

  13. This sounds like it could be fun. I’ve never played Horde past level 15 or so… maybe this way I can actually see the other side of the game!

  14. Okay well we discussed this at lunch and here is what we came up with. I forced them to give me two or three class choices so we would have something to work with. Then I looked at the comments so far and came up with this:

    All choices are in order of preference(ie: I’d rather play #1 but if someone else already is then I’ll play #2).

    Dumbbrother’s race class choices:
    #1)Tauren Prot Warrior
    #2)Tauren Enh Shaman

    Pretty Orc’s race class choices:
    #1)Non-undead fire mage
    #2)Non-undead Shadow Priest
    #3)Orc BM Hunter

    Myself’s race class choices:
    #1)??? Shadow priest
    #2)??? Disc/holy priest
    #3)Undead Affliction Lock

    Mr. Ess
    #1) Mage

    #?) priest,
    #?) warlock,
    #?) hunter,
    #?) a druid


    #1) Not druid

    Game Dame
    #?) Warrior,
    #?) Rogue,
    #?) prot pally

    I was thinking the following servers:
    Realm TZ Type Alliance Horde A/H Ratio Overall
    Anvilmar PST PVE 5,355 (72%) 2,081 (28%) 2.3 : 1 7,436
    Icecrown MST PVE 7,939 (69%) 3,591 (31%) 1.8 : 1 11,530
    Eonar EST PVE 9,267 (70%) 3,904 (30%) 1.3 : 1 13,171

    I chose realms by low population, low horde ration, easy to type/remember names.
    (All data is according to

    Not trying to be bossy/controlling. Just figured that no one had suggested realms yet and thought I would pipe up. Also now we have a compilation of what I’ve seen so far.

  15. Hey there, Nasirah! Would be wonderful to have you aboard, and sounds like Dumbbrother is with us, too. So, just one more slot to fill and we’re ready to roll. 😀

    Thanks so much for compiling all that, too, Dammerung. I’ll work on ranking my class choices, too, since it looks like we’re getting close.


  16. Using Dax’s suggestion of the couples rounding out the groups:

    Group the 1:
    Dammerung Healer(disc priest)
    Wulfa Dps(shadow priest)
    Dumbbrother Tank/dps(protwar/shaman)
    Waraden DPS(not a druid)
    Gamedame dps/tank(war.rog/prot pally)[send to group 2 if no tanks over there]

    Group the 2:
    Ess (maybe druid tank?)
    Mr. Ess Dps(mage)

    (I’m bored at work and shooting in the dark. Please forgive)

  17. Ok, Dax on healz!! Plz, plz!!! I’m thinking BE Holy/Disc Priest.

    There, I committed! Of course, I’m willing to change….if I have to….and have encouragement….with a stick….upside my head….


    Go Group 2!! A pox on Group 1!!

  18. Awww poxes are not fun.

    Newly updated after a thought about play times:

    Group the poxed:
    Dammerung….Healer……..7:30-10:30p CST
    Wulfa……..Dps………..7:30-10:30p CST
    Dumbbrother..Tank/dps……5:30-11:30p CST

    Group the poxer:
    Mr. Ess….Dps………….

    Temporaryily picked server due to no other suggestions:

  19. Ok so I want somebody to decide what server we’re on and what I’m playing so I can have the fun of creating new alt now. Love creating alts. And can I help decide guild name? design? setup? never have been in the top ranks of a guild and would like to see how one is setup/run.

  20. My class choices, for you awesome folks organizing this all. We seem to be well-equipped in the priest and heals category, so…

    1. ‘Lock
    2. Shammy
    3. Mage
    4. Warrior
    5. Rogue
    6. Pally

    But seriously, I am willing to play whatever. And I was only mostly teasing about being in Ess’s group. 😀

  21. lol, ok, how about /sniffles on group 1!!

    Availablility: 7-10 pm Eastern, Sun, Wed, and Fri. Strict on end time during the work week, negotiable, slightly, on start time and Fridays, of course. Sorry folks, but I have to get up at 4 am during the week.

    I raid on Tue/Thu/Sat and have dancing lessons on Mon. (Mrs. Dax is thrilled!). If we’re looking at one night per week, Wed is probably my first choice, followed by Friday.

    I’m also available on Sat morning around 8 am Eastern to around 12 pm.

    Looks like it’s coming together….now for some guild names…Barefoot Bloggers with Guns?


  22. I would be willing to try and tank, but I’ve never had any experience with it, so you’d have to bear with me. Otherwise DPS is fine, I’ve been thinking of trying a shammy, or maybe a ret pally. (Yes, I like the hybrid classes.)

    Play times, I do Kara T,Th,Sat,Sun, so those nights wouldn’t work for me. But MWF evenings (I’d say 6:30-10ish CST is a good window) or during the day on the weekends. (During weekdays works for me as well, but prolly not for others.)

  23. I’d say yes Wulfa… as no one has suggested any other servers or any reason not to go to Anvilmar.

    Group the poxed:
    Dammerung….Healer……..7:30-10:30p CST
    Wulfa……..Dps………..7:30-10:30p CST
    Dumbbrother..Tank/dps……5:30-11:30p CST

    Group the poxer:
    Mr. Ess….Dps………….
    Dax……..Healer………6:00-9:00p CST(most nights), 7-11am Sat

    Groups are completely arbitrarily thrown together by me at this point. Ess is the boss… I’m just the gerbil on the typing wheel.

  24. @Bruthah we still have room for you if you like. Group the poxed is missing a person.

    @Nas bah you sneaky poster… since we are starting at level 10 you’ll have plenty of time to learn anything. You are now the poxer tank(again pending review by Ess).

  25. /injects pox vaccine, just in case

    This is shaping up so nicely! And we’d love to have you, Bruthah, if you’d like to join the fun. 🙂

    I’m on from 7-11:30p EST (sometimes later, though it kills me the next morning). Mr Ess plays a bit less than I do, but if we have scheduled a playtime, he’ll be there. (Makes perfect sense to organize the groups by overlapping playtimes.)

    We have guild stuff Monday nights, tend to run off on Friday and Saturday nights, but almost any other evening is fine. On weekends, you can find me in game from 9a-5p sometimes. 😮

    And Beowulfa, if you want to grab the reins and do the guild design/setup/tabard(Ooohhhh!)/etc that is totally cool with me. I’m looking forward to being a part of this, though I don’t necessarily want to be in charge.

    And Anvilmar sounds great!

  26. This sounds like a fantastic idea (H/T to Game Dame for pointing this out). I’d love to join, but couldn’t commit to a set time of play. Though if you’re accepting stragglers (who happen to blog), I’d love to roll over to the dark side, see how the Horde does things and assist on an alt whenever possible.

  27. LOL… I go to lunch and all heck breaks loose! You guys are fast… and awesome. Okay, so Dammy doesn’t have to keep reiterating, I’ll do some.

    Wulfa, you should go nuts with the Guild stuff. Designs, colors, names, do it up. And I sing with you!!!

    Everyone should post their alt name, class, and race up here so we don’t get lost on Anvilmar.

    Here’s my email address, let us all share: thegamedame (( at )) gmail.

    I will pick the warrior class since I have no clue how it works. Heh.

    Dax = BE Priest
    Game Dame = Orc Warrior (most likely male, but undecided yet, I’m a huge fan of Ratshag)

    Group the poxed:
    Dammerung….Healer……..7:30-10:30p CST
    Wulfa……..Dps………..7:30-10:30p CST
    Dumbbrother..Tank/dps……5:30-11:30p CST
    Gamedame…..Orc Warrior 9:30p – 11:30pm CST (I’m on the west coast), weekends

    Group the poxer:
    Mr. Ess….Dps………….
    Dax……..BE Priest………6:00-9:00p CST(most nights), 7-11am Sat

    We have 2 more folks: Bruthah and Nasirah whom we need to assign to a group.

  28. And Nas, if you wanna give tanking a go, go for it! Please don’t feel pressured, however, if you prefer DPS. This is a great opportunity to try anything new you’ve been meaning to try.

    Very interesting thought about the professions, too, and how all of them could be represented within the groups. 🙂

  29. Ah! Sorry, Nasirah. I am le noob today. Okay, cool, then Brutha’s with the Poxers (Ha! I first typed “posers”).

    And if someone would rather be the tank, I can do hybrids. I love them. I could be a druid or a pally. Totally flexible.

  30. No no… (sorry for spamming your comments, Ess)… I want to try a rogue. I have even less knowledge of rogues than warriors. So I’m a female troll rogue.

    And I swear, no more changes.

  31. It looks like Wednesday night is the best for the most of both groups, but group 1 could do Saturday night possibly.

    We’re going to be on Anvilmar.

    Group the Green poxed:
    Honestbear(6:30-12:30 EST) not sunday or friday
    #1)Tauren Prot Warrior

    Game Dame(10:30p – 12:30pm EST) weekends
    #1) Female Troll Rogue

    Beowulfa(8:30-11:30p EST) not sunday
    #1)BE Shadow Priest

    Dammerung(8:30-11:30p EST) not sunday
    #1)BE Disc/holy priest

    Bruthah(maybe? still not confirmed by Bruthah)
    #1) ????

    Group the purple poxers:
    Mr. Ess(7:30-11:30p EST) Tues-Thurs, Sun
    #1) Mage

    Ess(7:30-11:30p EST) Tues-Thurs, Sun
    #?) priest,
    #?) warlock,
    #?) hunter,
    #?) a druid

    Dax(7:00-11:00p EST) Most nights
    #1) *Dax* BE Disc/holy priest

    1. ‘Lock
    2. Shammy
    3. Mage
    4. Warrior
    5. Rogue
    6. Pally

    #1) Tank?
    #2) Shaman
    #3) Ret paladin

    Permanant Visitors:
    #1) Hunter

  32. Dammy, the group names get better and better. I really deserve to be on the poxed team, fo sho.

    Is Honestbear the teammate formerly known as dumbbrother?

    I hope I didn’t miscommunicate, I can meet ANY TIME on the weekends, but only 10:30p – 12:30pm EST on weekdays.

  33. Dammy, the group names get better and better. I really deserve to be on the poxed team, fo sho.

    Is Honestbear the teammate formerly known as dumbbrother?

    I hope I didn’t miscommunicate, I can meet ANY TIME on the weekends, but only 10:30p – 12:30pm EST on weekdays.

    I left Bruthah a note on his blog… don’t have his contact info.

  34. @GD oh hah Will note that the next time I update everything. Yeah dumbbrother is ‘usually’ known as either Honestbear(male tauren) or Moonsongdown(female NE).

    @Nas Awesomely awesome

  35. Yay! Awesomeness guild creation stuff here I come! With a gulp at what I’ve volunteered for . . . send any ideas my way. Although name creation might best happen after we play together and get a feel for our group dynamics. /runs off to make new character on Anvilmar.

  36. I say give him a day and then add Luciel(moving Bruthah down to permanant visitors.

    Google id: dackmar

    Oh hey my other two comments actually posted. I got an error message and tried to post again.

  37. Sorry guys! I’m at work atm, and got the comment on disclight from GameDame. If I read this right, we have a warrior, two priests and a rogue?

    In that case, I’m thinking Warlock!

  38. My best days are Wednesdays and Saturdays after 8pm EST (good until around 1am, on those nights). If Luciel’s schedule is more open, she’s welcome to take over for me, since I realize how restrictive that is.

  39. Erm, I’m a dude. (Read it Lu-cee-EL, like Lucifer before the fall).

    I’m West Coast and weekdays I’m on from about 8:30 EST til about 1am EST. Weekends, open all day if I know in advance. The one day that shot for me is Tuesdays. I work late that day.

  40. If we all use EST as our timezone we should be able to see the hours that people match up on the most. At that point then I agree we should split the groups into hours that matchup best.

  41. Wed are good for me. Should be an interesting interaction if nothing else.

    I don’t want to roll what I already have. Thinking about rolling a clothie.


    Any of these more needed than the other?

  42. Wow, lots of activity during my commute home! I love the spreadsheet, too. Thanks so much for putting that together!

    I told Mr. Ess that we might be forming an East Coast team and a West Coast team, and he said, “Are we going to feud like rappers?” Hehe… I hope not.

    It’s nice to see that we’ll all pretty much overlap on Wednesday nights so all the teams can hang out. I’m off to play with the character creation screen a bit. I shall be a dps-tastic druid, name to be announced shortly.

    Welcome to those just joining the fray, too. Will be fun to see all these teams in action!

  43. Pingback: Anti-Pug « Life Tap

  44. Hehe… My baby drood has just arrived in the Tauren starting area. Her name is Madja.


    I’m also creating a channel called “poxic” for us to meet up in until we get something more guildish (or official) going. Talk with you guys soon! 🙂

  45. I’ve added a second tab on the spreadsheet which shows time overlaps for everyone who’s mentioned the times they are available. Would like to move to this style instead of the text list for more visual reference.

  46. A few of us have logged on and created characters, and it looks like Anvilmar is actually a high population server. (This was around 5pm server time.) It might not be an issue, but folks mentioned that they were hoping for low pop.

    Do we want to roll our toons elsewhere, or go ahead with Anvilmar?

  47. Wulfa says we’ve already decided so we’ll just try it and stick with it for now. If we get to level 10 and it turns out that its a problem for most folks we can re-roll servers at that point and we won’t lose much.

  48. If you are in the Group Green Poxed or the Group Purple Poxers, could you shoot me an email? I’m building a list for spam….erm communication, yeah, communication…ing….communicationing.

    rysteranch at sbcglobal dot net



  49. So, Ess, did we hit a record for the number of comments on this thread? lol.

    Could someone put me down for Tailoring/Enchanting? If someone already has Enchanting for Group Purple Poxers, then I’ll pick up a gathering prof (I like to mine….and skin….and burn flowers).

    I can’t access the spreadsheet at work, or I would do it myself.

    “Wow, Dax is really needy, isn’t he?”

    “Yeah, I’m beginning to think he’s going to get the Drama Queen rank in the guild far too often.”

    “For cryin’ out loud, this is his third holy priest; there’s got to be something seriously wrong with this guy, like alien/pod/tapeworm/Tom Cruise type wrong…”

    “I like pie”


  50. I was linked her from Dammy and Wulfa’s site. So you all will only be playing one night a week? I know my blog isn’t too WoW based at all times, but is there an app online for this? I might join in if it’s ok? If it is, can someone list what classes yuo need? Just wondering… klaki

  51. Poo! I can’t be in Dammys grp. Well, what is the yellow teams schedule? I might be able to talk Mrs. Klaki into playing. If we do, I will be a warrior of some type. I’ll let you know when I talk to her.

  52. Klaki, glad to have you, send me your Google email addy (or any addy) and I’ll give you access to mark up the spreadsheet. (Either scroll up to find my addy or go to my blog and use the contact form.) There’s no schedule’s set at all, really. And the sheet has time overlaps so everyone can see other people’s availability. The yellow team still needs a tank and DPS. If you go tank with the warrior, Mrs. Klaki can be any DPS she wants to be.

  53. I was noticing that my time on the spreadsheet was marked down wrong, probably partially a mis-translation in time zones (I said stopping around 10 CST would be good for me, and yet I was marked as being able to play until 12:30 EST) but also confusing because they were all in hour increments starting on the :30’s, so if someone wanted to start or stop on the hour, it was hard to visually see that.

    Anyway, I added in half-hour increments, and fixed my own time availability, and a couple others that I could find listed in the comments, but everyone might want to go double check to make sure their time is correct.

  54. Pingback: A Pox on PuGs! « The Game Dame

  55. @CowconTroll

    There were at least three other folks in the thread here that mentioned being interested in such a project on EU servers. Maybe check with one of them about getting a group together? Particularly check with Softi, Eric, and one5ive7even (no contact link, but you are welcome to arrange things with them through this thread). 🙂

  56. Absolutely! Please send an e-mail to me at outlandbound (( at )) from your preferred e-mail address and I’ll send you an invitation to the e-mail group. I’ll add your name to the spreadsheet for now, and we’ll get you access so you can add info about your potential play times, etc. 🙂

  57. Pingback: LFM Pox Arcanum « The Game Dame

  58. Pingback: Prepared Post Presented pro Pox Arcanum « For the Horde

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